Sorry about that, Bob… I thought quoting the Core product code would make it easy to find! Yeah I could have just put a link in… noted.
And yes, this device actually gives the pins used on the jack… nice.
I already have my test setup with the thing clamped around the active conductor only… not an issue When it is installed in situ I will obviously do the same there.
Lastly (?) I looked up my pump specs… it doesn’t actually give a power rating (yup…) only the ref to max current, which is probably just a blanket statement. I will call the supplier (Grundfos) tomorrow, as I suspect the operating current draw is way less than 10 amps… so it may be even better to go for the 5 Amp version here Assuming that it will be more sensitive,
End of the day, as I said, I only need a basic “ON/OFF” indication for my planned purpose.
Really appreciate your taking time to help me out.
I must apologise Trevor.
that number you quoted I see now IS the Core product number. It is just an unusually long one and it was not a link so I did not associate it with Core.
That is what you have to allow for. The start up (or inrush) current will be more that the running current.
I don’t know how an Arduino (or other similar) is going to process the shifted AC signal as an On/Off situation but I imagine you have something in mind.
I don’t know how an Arduino or RPi handles a negative (WRT Ground) signal as I haven’t seen anything officially published about it. Jeff105671 in a previous post said it should be avoided and the application notes for this device connected to Arduino have gone to the trouble of shifting so ALL of the sine wave is positive WRT Ground so there must be something in it and avoiding that happening is not a bad idea. Saves potential trouble. So my advice is follow the application note and level shift to half Vcc as in the sample schematic.
Cheers Bob
Noted… and I just found on my invoice the pump is rated as 0.9kW… which I figure is around 3.75 Amps. So 5 should cover it… if I ignore inrush. I guess the 10 AMp version is safer.
I’ll have to study the Arduino notes re shiting voltage up, see if I can manage that without breaking anything
Hi Trevor
There are some links on Core page for this product you should probably read. Especially the middle one where it explains level shifting and the reasons why.
Please note that the documentation included with the product page include references to a different type of sensor. The SS101990059 is a ‘voltage ouput’ type, so the section on the burden resistor (the 10Ω resistor you have mentioned) can be ignored.
Yep… I’m aware of that. It was one of the reasons I liked this product… inbuilt load resistor, and just outputs a voltage between 0 and 1. Can’t get any easier than that to interface to my Pico GPIO pin, huh? I have ordered one.
I am a bit suspicious my SEN-1105 is not behaving itself, albeit my current draw is pretty close to its lower limit. On my DSO, I see very short spikes at 50Hz… this across a 12 ohm load. When I have a little more time, I’ll post a pic of the trace.
Please check the output connections (Tip, Ring, Sleeve) as my assumption of tip and ring might not be correct. The 10A one has the connection at tip and sleeve and I base my guess on audio convention in the absence of this info in the Data sheet.
It is easy to check, you should be able to measure the coil resistance of about 250Ω across the correct connections.
You are probably seeing a small capacitive differentiated version of the proper signal. It should be a reasonable (as reasonable as the mains voltage) sine wave. The amplitude might be only a few mV.
Cheers Bob
Jeff is correct, the 10A-1V device wold be a voltage output device with a built in burden resistor.
It would seem the only current output in this range is the SCT-013-000 100A device.
There is a voltage one with the “V” suffix after the “000”.
Cheers Bob
There is one strange figure.
The Core specifications for the 5A device says
" Build-in sampling resistance(RL): 372Ω"
This seems a bit high, more like the coil resistance alone which makes me suspect that this one might be a current output, It is marked differently to the others in the same series also.
Can someone please confirm.
Good catch, this looks like an error as ‘(RL)’ is probably referring to the load resistance that the sensor will place on the circuit it is measuring. We will get this changed to read as
“Load resistance (RL): 372Ω”.
The sampling resistance should be around 0-5Ω based on similar devices.
I see 220 ohm across sleeve and tip of the SEN-1105.
Am now quite puzzled by what I see on the CRO. Placing a 12 ohm load across the coil, I now see a sinewave… but it doesn’t seem very stable. My DSO (Hantek DSO5102B with old firmware, but that’s another story !!) reports the frequency jumping all over the place (like ranging between maybe 20Hz up to 200Hz !!). P-P voltage of 72mV. I don’t really believe the reported changes in frequency…I have a stable sinewave showing…
My early attempts to get a handle on this included (perhaps foolishly) putting a diode in series with the load resistor. So… with that in place, my trace shows huge spikes, no longer a sinewave, with P-P of 33V !! Some traces attached.
Quite frankly, I don’t really know what to make of all this. I’ve only recently started messing with this DSO… and microcontrollers. Is my old Hantek a piece of er… rubbish? I’ve tried playing with trigger settings, but still get weird pics.
But, I digress… I’m happy to park this for now, pending arrival of the SCT-013-010 device. That said, any comments on my (dodgy?) Hantek would be welcome.
Hi Samuel
Any reflected resistance will be in series with the circuit being measured and although 372Ω would reflect a low series resistance if it is indeed the load it would be worth investigation. The different marking on the device raised my suspicion plus the close value to the 250Ω coil resistance quoted for a higher current device. I would have expected a burden resistor to be in the vicinity 35 to 40Ω. If you leave these coils unloaded there is a very good chance there will be close to an open circuit reflected into the effective single turn primary so nothing would get any further.
I had a practical experience with this sort of thing some years ago. Please refer to my reply above in this subject from Sept.2023.
I think this is worth confirming and checking.
Cheers Bob
Hi Trevor
I stated above DO NOT put the diode in series with the load resistor. I said it was in the wrong place and I meant it.
The top trace:
I don’t know where the 25Hz comes from. The time is set at 8mS per division so the period is clearly 20mS (50 Hz) which it should be. At 20mV per division the 72.8mV P-P looks right.
The bottom trace:
The period is still 20mS so I think the 2.5kHz could be the ringing frequency observed at the trailing edge of the spike.
Did you not read the links. There are warnings about operating these CTs open circuit. It looks as if the diode has allowed a termination one way (the negative part of the sine wave) and blocked it the other way so removing the terminating or as the text says the burden resistor so leaving the coil unloaded. That is why the high voltage. The CT has probably saturated or something just leaving the spikes. This result is completely wrong so get rid of the diode whatever type it is and re read the information in the links before you do any permanent damage. Your scope only shows about 34V but if you used a higher bandwidth these spikes could be many hundreds of V.
Be careful.
Cheers Bob
Thanks Bob… I have removed the diode, and yes I did read the links. I’ve made some progress with my project, but as said, I’m waiting on delivery of the other CT device(s) before I pursue this aspect further.
My worry re my DSO stems from acknowledging the firmware is way out of date… and when I see a stable, latched waveform displayed, yet the reported frequency jumps all over the place… literally changing every second or so by large amount, it makes you wonder. Yes, if I zoom in a see ringing following those spikes, but I don’t think that is what the DSO is reporting. Anyway, I know this is really kinda off-topic.
I have other issues to address that seem more fundamental. I am a newcomer to this whole environment, and although I have a lifetime of experience in IT at seniou levels, I am quite perplexed at some aspects of the Thonny IDE. That is my task for today… try to get a grasp on it. I have lost code updates, as Thonny does not seem to keep files on chip and files on disk insynch as it claims. I make some simple changes (eg to Liam’s Homestation code, altering the delay), and yet the delay I see occurring seems hit and miss which value it uses. It can’t be random… but even deleting the flash version, re-uploading from disk… I still get the old behaviour. Very frustrating/confusing what is going on! There seems to be little detailed documentation on some aspects of Thonny… I’ve found some on Wiki etc… but am seriously considering biting the bullet and moving to VS Code instead. I use VS Pro a lot, doing C# programming… so VS Code learning curve should be minimal.
I think it is. As a matter of fact I am sure it is. This will change as the amplitude goes in and out of what amplitude values the DSO will report and I reckon this is the variation you are seeing. That is one of the things that have to be considered when using an instrument of this nature. Learning what is relevant and what to discard as irrelevant.. In this case the 20mS period (50Hz) is important as is amplitude. All the other information is only there to worry you as you have let it. like what use is there in knowing the rise time of a sine wave, measured at 10% and 90% of the amplitude. Same with peak (or P-P) voltages on a signal that is a bit noisy. The little noise spikes are included in this value and in most cases mean nothing as you might be actually putting the irregularities there.
Some scopes have filters to remove some of this if it is unimportant.
I have said the before but I think it is important to be aware of any instruments limitations and quirks and get a feeling of what they are telling you. This will help discard mentally anything which has no real importance in the real world and save a lot of hair pulling in the process.
You won’t or should not be using a diode in this position so this won’t matter.
As far as your Thonny problems are concerned I am sorry I don’t know much about this. I know enough to try and stay away.. All this RPi stuff does not seem to have a lot of backward compatibility and interchangeability and I don’t see myself chasing my tail too much at my stage in life. Just think what a mess it would be if your Windows or Mac PC was like that.
Cheers Bob
Cheers Bob
This product data is obtained directly from our supplier’s website, and a quick check confirms that it is still listed at the same value on their end. I have attached a screenshot of this data below.
This specific image is obtained from the 20A variant, though the 5A variant is the same.
We have no physical stock of the 5A variant for testing purposes, however we do have 20A versions in supply. As seen in the image, the resistance is labelled at 93 Ohms. A multimeter test of the output terminals gives a reading of 46.3 Ohms. We will continue to investigate this to ensure it is not a mistake, or at the very least clarify the purpose of this value on our website.
The coil resistance will be in parallel with the 93Ω. The specs on Seed Studio web site are delightfully vague aren’t they. The info re Arduino is the same page I found previously from somewhere else. The 46.3Ω measured looks suspiciously like half the 93Ω quoted. I would have thought the coil resistance would have been more than that. One of these things (I forget which one now and I am not doing another search) was quoted at coil resistance 250Ω and a turns ratio of 2000:1 (which I had calculated earlier) so I would have expected this one at 1800:1 to be about 225Ω assuming the same wire gauge. That would mean your measurement should have been about 66Ω. But one never knows and I don’t think you are going to be able to find out. The only check would be to see if you do in fact get a result of 1V @ 20A. Then is this RMS, Peak or P-P. Not stated.
Cheers Bob
EDIT. I think this would be RMS, the same as the primary.
Hi Zach
This 93Ω terminating (some call it burden) resistor might be right.
This one. 20A is 1V output. 93Ω
10A one. 10A is 1V output. 186Ω (932)
5A one. 5A is 1V output. 372Ω (1862)
This looks like these units are all exactly the same with a different terminating resistor. Chosen to provide 1V output at the secondary current obtained with the primary current printed on the outside of the case. As the current goes down the resistor goes up in a linear fashion to always produce 1V at the secondary at the stated current. Cheeky eh but it must save heaps in tooling when manufactured. The same turns ratio with the same wire will produce this. Just change the printing on the outside to suit.
Cheers Bob
Finally got my 5A and 10A rated sensors, SCT-013-010, from YHDC (sourced elsewhere… but Core did not seem to have what I wanted).
I have attached a trace for this device, which is behaving just fine… with NOTHING across the terminals These are designed to put out voltage - not current. The 5A version is best for my needs… a 750 Watt pump motor.
So, my remaining challenge is how to massage this signal, or altenatively, sense the AC signal on a pin on my Pico. I remind you that all I need is an ON/OFF status…nothing facy.
The trace shown is actually from a 1KW heater I’ve been using as a test device. I did measure the actual pump, the trace is similar, only slightly lower P-P… and not such a clean sinewave, but I figure if I can get things working on this trace… the actual pump should be fine.
Are you gentlemen able to advise on how best to detect this on a Pico GPIO pin?
I thought I could use a smoothed half-wave rectifier… but so far am still unable to get that working… which does my ego no good at all! Seems it should be simple. Sigh…
In that case the important bit is what the trace looks like in the other state (I presume that trace is the “ON” state).
A rectifier, smoothing capacitor and resistor should work to provide a DC voltage the Pi can read. A Zener diode to ground would ensure clipping at a suitable voltage. With the setup you tried what was the trace for the signal at the Pi input, and how are you processing that input?
When the pump is OFF… the trace should be fairly close to zero.. only noise. I have not yet writtten the code (or wired it up) to the Pico… doing that right now!
But really… if, as I expect, it shows maybe a few millivolts when off, and a decent number of millivolts when on.. it should be trivial. And this is all really sloooow… timing is not at all critical.
I have an old diode (1N4004 ??), maybe even a zener, and a random assortment of capacitors, but initial attempts putting the diode and resistor across the leads ended in disappointment. I gave up at 2AM last night ;-( It’s been about 50 years since I played with stuff like this… I may have done something stupid… but seriously, this should NOT be hard… right?
BTW… what value capacitor would be about right? And R… if Indeed I need to make a little RC thing.
Happy to show you another trace, when I get it all hooked up again… maybe later today/tonight.
